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Okay UGA fans.. Who can choose two players to close with

  • They do have to anticipate being blocked on every play, but i guarantee they would rather have to fight off a block by a tight end, full back or H back than a 300 lb lineman. Especially if they are as talented as Bama's O-line was.

    dawg all in

  • Adams and Tunsil period!

    BBivens

  • Tunsil and Adams

    SloppyDawg

  • No brainer ... Tunsil and Adams

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    kiddynamite

  • meansonny said...

    Please don't take this the wrong way.

    Our scheme has 3 down linemen in the 3-4. 2 downlinemen in the nickel defense.

    The OL has 5 linemen. They typically try to run the ball through a single gap (meaning they don't have to double-team more than the point of attack).

    Too much is made of keeping linemen off the linebackers.

    You throw in tight ends, fullbacks, and H-Backs, and our ILb need to anticipate a blocker on almost every play. A free shot by an ILb is more likely a busted assignment by the offense or by Grantham's scheme more-so than 2 DL eating up double-teams.

    That is hard to disagree with. I just think we need Adams for quality depth on the DL. Now i am NOT saying I wouldn't take Foster at all cause we all know he is a special player but imo only I just think if I could only pick 2 it would be Tunsil and Adams.

    BBivens

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    Bourbon sipper

  • meansonny said...

    Please don't take this the wrong way.

    Our scheme has 3 down linemen in the 3-4. 2 downlinemen in the nickel defense.

    The OL has 5 linemen. They typically try to run the ball through a single gap (meaning they don't have to double-team more than the point of attack).

    Too much is made of keeping linemen off the linebackers.

    You throw in tight ends, fullbacks, and H-Backs, and our ILb need to anticipate a blocker on almost every play. A free shot by an ILb is more likely a busted assignment by the offense or by Grantham's scheme more-so than 2 DL eating up double-teams.

    Sonny,
    I don't say much, because you usually cover it. You can't teach football online, but I commend you for trying. Tunsil and Foster (If he is as good as advertised). As you said that whole double team is more for defensive schemes. A good ILB is going to anticipate and react, but if he can't get off a block he will not be great no matter who is playing in front of him.

    Juno1977

  • meansonny said...

    Please don't take this the wrong way.

    Our scheme has 3 down linemen in the 3-4. 2 downlinemen in the nickel defense.

    The OL has 5 linemen. They typically try to run the ball through a single gap (meaning they don't have to double-team more than the point of attack).

    Too much is made of keeping linemen off the linebackers.

    You throw in tight ends, fullbacks, and H-Backs, and our ILb need to anticipate a blocker on almost every play. A free shot by an ILb is more likely a busted assignment by the offense or by Grantham's scheme more-so than 2 DL eating up double-teams.

    The point of your post was to prove your previous statement that it is the linebackers that make the 3-4 work, not the d-lineman. Have to disagree... for the most part.

    In the 3-4, you want linebackers that can consistently make a tackle and shed one on one blocks. A 3-4 defense is really successful if you have such a LB. But even more so, you HAVE to have space eaters and you HAVE to have d-linemen that CREATE double teams for these linebackers to be effective and shed just one on one blocks... if even that.

    You can have the best ILB in the country and have an ineffective defense if you don't have the appropriate linemen in a 3-4. With that said, you can have a decent ILB make all-SEC with stellar d-lineman in a 3-4.

    When teams switch to a 3-4 from a 4-3, there is always a down season, not so much going from a 3-4 to a 4-3. UGA went 6-7 and Bama went 6-6 when swapping to the 3-4. The difference according to Saban and TG was not having a space-eating nose guard......

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by kiddynamite on 1/26/2013 at 9:18 PM

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    kiddynamite

  • kiddynamite said...

    The point of your post was to prove your previous statement that it is the linebackers that make the 3-4 work, not the d-lineman. Have to disagree... for the most part.

    In the 3-4, you want linebackers that can consistently make a tackle and shed one on one blocks. A 3-4 defense is really successful if you have such a LB. But even more so, you HAVE to have space eaters and you HAVE to have d-linemen that CAUSE double teams for these linebackers to be effective.

    You can have the best ILB in the country and have an ineffective defense if you don't have the appropriate linemen in a 3-4. With that said, you can have a decent ILB make all-SEC with stellar d-lineman in a 3-4.

    When teams switch to a 3-4 from a 4-3, there is always a down season, not so much going from a 4-3 to a 3-4. UGA went 6-7 and Bama went 6-6 when swapping to the 3-4. The difference according to Saban and TG was not having a space-eating nose guard......

    We had 2 space eaters out there this season. How did that work out for us?

    The problem with space eaters is that they aren't quick off the ball.

    What does that mean? It means that a 200 pounder can chop block the big DL on the backside, and that is enough to make him ineffective on a play that is run through a different gap. 350 pound guys aren't agile enough to take a guy at their legs and cut through the line of scrimmage to stop anything on the backside.

    That DL will never see a double-team. It would be pointless and stupid by an offensive coordinator to waste his blockers. And that's why the complaints about our DL make me shake my head this season.

    So what does the offense do. They run a double-team at the point of attack (meaning that they only need one offensive lineman to cut the backside DL). And that leaves 4 other offensive linemen to handle 1 other DT (see Bama against us in the nickel look). How in the heck is that one other DT supposed to keep 4 OL off the linebackers?

    He's not. The linebackers have to be able to beat their block by filling the gap quickly. We're living in a dream world if we think that an offensive line is going to forget to block an inside linebacker because he's worried about 2 D Linemen.

    Not only are there 4 other OL to deal with. Many times, there is a tight end and/or HBack or fullback as well.

    Our inside linebackers have to play like men. This is football. Not... blaming 2 DL because they both couldn't draw a double-team.

    This post was edited by meansonny on 1/26/2013 at 9:22 PM

    meansonny

  • Another quick point is that when the ILB fill the gaps and cut down on the free space for the RB, then the safeties are supposed to fill in behind them.

    They are the guys who are often unblocked in this defense.
    It's why Shawn Williams was our leading tackler when we had one of the nations best run defenses.

    Quit expecting the ILB to be clean. They need to get read the plays quicker and get their noses closer to the line of scrimmage (or Grantham needs to creep them up on the line at the start of the play... which opens us up to other things, but at least makes it easier to clog up the middle).

    This post was edited by meansonny on 1/26/2013 at 11:26 PM

    meansonny

  • meansonny said...

    We had 2 space eaters out there this season. How did that work out for us?

    In 2010 and 2007, UGA and Bama lacked a space eater where in 2011 and 2008, they had a big ass JUCO nose guard. Both TG and Saban pinpointed a nose guard as the missing link for their defense... who are they to know?

    UGA defense:

    2010- first 3-4 year- 23rd ranked defense, 328.5 yards/game
    2011- 2nd 3-4 year- 5th ranked defense, 277.2 yrds/gme

    Bama defense:

    2007- first 3-4 year- 31st ranked defense, 345.5 yards/game
    2008- 2nd 3-4 year- 4th ranked defense, 263.5 yards/game

    Again, Saban and Grantham both said the missing piece was the nose guard.

    The linebackers play their role just like the defensive backs, but the 3-4 is ineffective without the appropriate d-line. That is step one and a must.

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    kiddynamite

  • kiddynamite said...

    In 2010 and 2007, UGA and Bama lacked a space eater where in 2011 and 2008, they had a big ass JUCO nose guard. Both TG and Saban pinpointed a nose guard as the missing link for their defense... who are they to know?

    UGA defense:

    2010- first 3-4 year- 23rd ranked defense, 328.5 yards/game 2011- 2nd 3-4 year- 5th ranked defense, 277.2 yrds/gme

    Bama defense:

    2007- first 3-4 year- 31st ranked defense, 345.5 yards/game 2008- 2nd 3-4 year- 4th ranked defense, 263.5 yards/game

    Again, Saban and Grantham both said the missing piece was the nose guard.

    The linebackers play their role just like the defensive backs, but the 3-4 is ineffective without the appropriate d-line. That is step one and a must.

    We're not going to get much better on the DL than John Jenkins and Abry Jones.
    We're not going to get much better on the DL than Kwame Geathers, John Jenkins and Garrison Smith.

    The guys up front couldn't have done much more this season than they gave us.

    Show me the game where they get pushed around. I'm not talking about 1 or 2 plays.
    I'm talking about the game.

    If you watch the games, it is the ILB who aren't fitting their gaps.
    It's the safeties having to defend too much space because the ILB is stuck 4 yards beyond the line of scrimmage on a blocker (and my previous posts are trying to illustrate that there are too many blockers for 2 or 3 DTs to account for them all. Bama's 2 tight end set has 7 guys blocking with only our 3 DTs up front. At what point do we hold the ILBs accountable?).

    meansonny

  • meansonny said...

    Bama's 2 tight end set has 7 guys blocking with only our 3 DTs up front. At what point do we hold the ILBs accountable?e

    Just watched the entire first half of the SECC. Bama ran a 2 TE set only 4 times, twice on goal line situations, once on 3rd and short. The 4th time was a screen pass.

    To act like UGA's front seven is overwhelmed by too many blockers because of the offensive scheme is naive.

    Too many blockers? Nope.

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    kiddynamite

  • You watched the first half and you saw us in nickel most of the time. Again. 2 DTs against a 5 man front. and jenkins did get the doubleteam most of the half. We are going to be hard pressed to get better DT play than we got from Jenkins and Smith.

    at what point do we hold the ILb accountable?

    (Watch the second half where Bama puts in the 2 TE sets more often)

    meansonny

  • Just clicked on the SECC game 5 times while UGA was on defense, not once was UGA in the nickel.

    We can argue back and forth all day if you want. But to me, the success of the 3-4 relies on having an appropriate nose tackle. IMO, if you have every piece of the puzzle on defense minus the nose tackle, you will come up short every time in a 3-4.

    The key to a successful 3-4 is a stout nose tackle. If you think it is an ILB, then we shall agree to disagree.

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    kiddynamite

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    your mother's favorite poster.

    downlowdawg ●

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    Frank Tha Tank

  • LhB has a video on Johnathan Jenkins in the Bama game. And it is ball over the first portion of the highlight vid (nickel defense with Jenkins and Garrison at DT and 2 OLB up on the line.

    meansonny

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    ca dawg

  • kiddynamite said...

    Just clicked on the SECC game 5 times while UGA was on defense, not once was UGA in the nickel.

    We can argue back and forth all day if you want. But to me, the success of the 3-4 relies on having an appropriate nose tackle. IMO, if you have every piece of the puzzle on defense minus the nose tackle, you will come up short every time in a 3-4.

    The key to a successful 3-4 is a stout nose tackle. If you think it is an ILB, then we shall agree to disagree.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5qmC0zfxoM

    We were in nickel about half of the time.

    If it's a 4 man front, that's the nickel.
    5 man defensive front, that's the base defense on the 3-4.

    Play

    Jonathan Jenkins vs Alabama SEC Championsh...

    http://www.youtube.com/v/f5qmC0zfxoM

    meansonny

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